Techniques/Cancel Discussion

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Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby AttilaThePun » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:02 pm

What about provoking? I like to run in and dodge or gas-jump out, then you have a clear shot from the back. From there, most characters can hit in the 300s, but kills with Levi's special can hit for 500+. Petra's special can also add a good amount of damage to that technique, at least into the 400s, but I don't know how much potential there is there. A Levi-only variant of the provoke is the side provoke, where you provoke a ground slam or triple punch in the same way but then move 90 degrees off to the side. From there, you double hook about halfway up the titan and then get the kill with the special. It only works on normal, because titans turn too quickly on hard and abnormal, but it's completely safe, not too difficult, and consistently hits for 500-600. The highest damage I've hit with it is in the 800s. It's also good practice for when a titan is distracted.

Somewhat separate from your "over the top", which is a dangerous and unreliable technique (as you point out), I suggest adding the Overhead Cut. You fire both hooks to the upper head in the same way, but you release only one of the hooks. The other hook stays connected the whole way, and it brings you to the nape before the titan has time to react or move. You can adjust in the air by firing gas some of the way. The damage is low (<200) unless you time your strike just right, but it's reliable and pretty accurate. The only downside is that it requires the titan to be facing you directly, otherwise you wind up to the side of the nape.

Yet another technique I'd like to add is a Sparrow Strike derivative. I call it the Spread Sparrow because the hooks are spread apart. If you've played with Nero, I picked it up from him, so he gets credit. It starts with a gas-powered side jump like the alternate sparrow, but the first hook goes to the face and the second on the body. As someone who plays with the original camera, it's difficult, but it's not impossible like the basic Sparrow. Nero plays with the WoW camera, so I imagine it's much easier there.
AttilaThePun
 

 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Skirazi » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:28 pm

I actually dislike using specific techniques and forcefully prevent myself from using them, because you never know:

a) what kind of situation you'll find yourself in during MP and even SP, ESPECIALLY in these days with walking titans and crawling titans and running titans and jumping titans. You should always brace yourself for the very worst, and

b) with guaranteed Titan AI updates, imagine if Feng added a move for Titans that grabbed anyone who was trying to fly past them over the shoulder. Everyone who counted on getting Most/All of their kills from Sparrow Strike/a derivation of Sparrow Strike is effectively screwed, and have to start from the bottom.

c) It helps you leaps and bounds with being efficient at moving around with 3DMG when you use it for getting behind Titans without just double-hooking on to their nape and spinning behind them. It feels completely different, you learn about shifting momentum easily, when to use gas, all kinds of things.

That's why I promote "No Technique" to be the Best Technique: just swing around in the tree-tops and building-tops until you find an open nape. Then, WHOOSH, slice out that nape, just like in the anime. On Public Servers, I often (if not always, I can't remember) get the most kills using "No Technique." Don't get me wrong, these "Tricks" are pretty cool too but they don't make you good at the game, just good at doing Tricks.
Skirazi
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Annie Leonhardt » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:32 pm

My actual favorite is sparrow cut, because with it I get high damage, and if I miss I can't be harmed and most of the times he will ignore me after this. The worse that could happen is faceplant his chest.
Annie Leonhardt
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby AttilaThePun » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:40 pm

Skirazi wrote:I actually dislike using specific techniques and forcefully prevent myself from using them, because you never know:

a) what kind of situation you'll find yourself in during MP and even SP, ESPECIALLY in these days with walking titans and crawling titans and running titans and jumping titans. You should always brace yourself for the very worst, and

b) with guaranteed Titan AI updates, imagine if Feng added a move for Titans that grabbed anyone who was trying to fly past them over the shoulder. Everyone who counted on getting Most/All of their kills from Sparrow Strike/a derivation of Sparrow Strike is effectively screwed, and have to start from the bottom.

c) It helps you leaps and bounds with being efficient at moving around with 3DMG when you use it for getting behind Titans without just double-hooking on to their nape and spinning behind them. It feels completely different, you learn about shifting momentum easily, when to use gas, all kinds of things.

That's why I promote "No Technique" to be the Best Technique: just swing around in the tree-tops and building-tops until you find an open nape. Then, WHOOSH, slice out that nape, just like in the anime. On Public Servers, I often (if not always, I can't remember) get the most kills using "No Technique." Don't get me wrong, these "Tricks" are pretty cool too but they don't make you good at the game, just good at doing Tricks.


I feel mostly the same way, but there are times when you need the consistency and reliability of a frontal kill technique. When you have to take down large groups (mostly) alone in The Forest, City I, or Forest III, being able to hit a guaranteed kill and escape safely is an invaluable skill. Also, learning techniques, at least the basic ones, can help a new player learn the feel of the ropes.
AttilaThePun
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby CriticalBlinking » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:36 am

Good points guys.

Skirazi: the techniques don't have to be a forever thing; if the game changes, people will change with it and come up with new techniques. It's like any fighting game - the top players develop the meta-game, sometimes with unusual uses of particular character mechanics, and when the game gets patched/new version is released, people find the new meta. And besides, cancels and other moves with wide applications significantly increase the number of options you can take; e.g. more acceleration, stopping acceleration, not wall running, not sliding, etc etc.

'No technique' is basically pure skill, something developed over time and through learning the mechanics. Honestly I would've stopped playing this game soon after I tried it if I hadn't visited the forum and seen NaN's video of the equator cut. I instantly set out to learn it, modify it, expanded into a ghetto sparrow strike, and then saw the sparrow strike and learned that too. From there this topic was born, and along the way I discovered a bunch of cancels that haven't been discussed before.

I'm a sucker for learning little tricks and things in games, because learning = skill as much as skill = skill. Even the best fighting game players have to play 50/50 guessing games that skill just can't win because the human reaction speed is too slow, but they'll still master their combos to punish even the slightest mistake. And besides...this topic isn't just for learning specifically how to do one particular killing move. If you have a general concept (dodge+punish, wall jump off titan + gas to hook up from lower back, etc.), I can add it too since this is an overarching topic which will hopefully cover all of the game's finer details regarding combat mechanics.
CriticalBlinking
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Skirazi » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:56 am

Both of you are right, I didn't mean to sound so Critical (pardon the Pun (oh god... sorry)) of Equator Cut and Sparrow Strike etc. Definitely for someone who's new, these tricks and quick-kills are invaluable, but a 'veteran' of the game shouldn't be relying on only these moves to kill Titans. That's what I was trying to say. I often use some of these tricks to get fast kills when I don't feel like messing around too much. Once there's three 15 meter-class titans right next to each other, I start playing a lot smarter and using the environment to get to three different napes as fast as I can without getting Kung Fu'd/Bitten/Grabbed and without having to start from the ground every single time (too time-consuming to reposition, etc.).
Skirazi
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Yoon » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:26 am

kudos to who made this post. This is the kind of shit we discuss on forums, but you're missing a couple of things...
Yes, we've established that we can dodge backwards, but you can also do other small tricks using that.
Hard to explain the ones you missed, I'll probably make a gif of it later.
Yoon
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Accelevi » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:33 am

@Skirazi: Pros do use different moves, they just like this because it works. They probably have multiple more.
My record for overhead was on hard for about 900ish.
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Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby CriticalBlinking » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:31 am

Skirazi wrote:Both of you are right, I didn't mean to sound so Critical (pardon the Pun (oh god... sorry)) of Equator Cut and Sparrow Strike etc. Snip.


Oh, you're absolutely right. I just saw Tinyweed's 3 time attack videos in the scoreboard topic and was blown away by his pure 3DMG skill...I should probably practice doing time attacks instead of going for high score hits from now on.

yuyuhoho: When you get the gif up I'll add it to the list.
CriticalBlinking
 

Re: Techniques/Cancel Discussion

Postby Accelevi » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:03 pm

Time runs can be really helpful, if you're determined.
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