Female and Eren Titans

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Female and Eren Titans

Postby FearItself » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:37 pm

Obligatory: sorry if this is a repost.
Let's have a serious topic on this. By looking at all of the other ideas that people have regarding these two titans being added into the game, most people come to the conclusion that they would either be way too strong or way too weak to fight. What ideas do you all have that you think could be implemented to properly add these two as balanced parts of the game? Add-ons or handicaps, what attacks they could use or what powers they should be able to apply, really anything. What should be applied to logically add them into the game to make them hard enough to make it fun but still possible to fight against/alongside?
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Mika » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:25 pm

Handicaps: The time of the transformation (x > 25 secs) & the vulnerability of other players (every attack the titan shifter does is as deadly as one of the normal titans).

Attacks they could use:
---Eren: 1) Would grab the titan, smack his belly and after that he would bite off the nape. 2) Double-fist strike in the face to temporally slow down titan. 3) Several stomps on the ground that could kill lesser titans.

---Annie: 1) Several stomps on the ground that could kill lesser titans. 2) Scream to attract titans (same as Marco's skill). 3) Kick to the nape that kills larger titans instantly, takes some time to charge (3~5 secs)
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Fuginotory » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:52 pm

I think balancing the power of the titan shifters to be equal to the human characters would be a big mistake. Attack on Titan (the anime/manga) makes it clear that titans are stronger than humans, and shifters are stronger than titans, but there are also some very obvious things that are in line with the anime/manga that will make a shifter playable without making it OP.

A shifter added to the game would need to be evidently stronger than any normal titan and human, meaning that as a shifter in titan form you should be able to kill titans easily unless they overwhelm you and attack you from all sides, thus a health bar would be needed for a shifter, that health bar would deplete when the shifter is attacked, and refill when the shifter is in the clear, this bar can get the blade durability slot. If the titans manage to deplete this bar, you are finished.

As is evident in the anime/manga, a shifter is slower than 3DMG unless it is running, thus a normal character using 3DMG should be able to move a lot faster than a shifter in titan form, meaning that just because you are in titan form does not mean you are going to steal the show. Not being able to sprint in titan form would not make sense, and spamming attacks and abilities (like skin hardening) would be a bit OP, thus a stamina bar introduced, that depletes each time you attack, sprint or use a special could take up the gas spot. This bar will constantly refill itself slowly, so if you overdo it, you will burn yourself out (as seen in episode 8) at which point you emerge from the titan corpse with the slowest walking speed and no blades or gas, and incapable of shifting for an amount of time (say a 5 min cooldown) meaning a shifter would be unable to just shift back and start smashing again, and would most likely need protecting in order to get more gas and blades.

If shifting into a titan form is a special for the given character, then note that all specials start in cooldown when you start the game, or die and re-spawn, meaning that a cooldown around 5 minutes will mean that shifters can't just enter, shift and rampage all over, or get themselves killed if they burn themselves out in order to have their shifting reset, they would actually need to survive for a certain amount of time before they use it, and they would need to pay attention to their titan if they wish to do anything good with it. The cooldown for such an ability should not be too long though, anything beyond 5 minutes will mean you most likely will not be able to use it, ever. Why? Because most games I play end within 5 minutes when I'm clearing a level with just one friend, and the next round the shift will start in cooldown again, meaning I will only use it if the game drags on for too long, which is most likely to happen if my team is wiped out and I run out of gas on the no re-spawn and refill city level. A 5 minute cooldown would also mean that I can just kick back and wait it out if I feel like smashing something in single player.

These simple things will make the titan shifters both reasonable, playable, and they will, in my opinion, prevent people from just making a team of Eren and Eren and Eren and Eren etc... just so they can win. Why I think this?, because I've seen Jean, he has two things I like and wanted, he has twice the amount of gas the others have, and he has a grab escape (even if it is only one time), but he has no special attack, and I find that to be a real annoyance, and I wouldn't pick him, and honestly, I personally always play Mikasa because I like Mikasa (the anime/manga one that is), and it makes little difference to me what other characters are added, and what they can do. The only shifter I'm going to be happy enough to use that I would pick over Mikasa in a game is the Armoured Titan, because I like the Armoured Titan in both human and titan form, but I would still mostly use Mikasa.

Lastly, I cannot understand why anyone would concern themselves with what others might do if titan shifters are added, personally I wouldn't care if someone, somewhere decided to make a team of 5 that are all shifters just so they can win, I mean, I play how I like, they play how they like, their decision does not affect my gaming experience in any way. Also consider this, a titan shifter in titan form would not be able to gain the speed needed for high damage kills, the highest damage I see a shifter doing is in the neighbourhood of 100 at most, which is a universe apart from Levi's 100 230 (seeing is believing) and means that nobody would try to use if to get a high score in a score board, or fastest stage clearing for that matter, as it would take 5 minutes for the special to become available. Also banning the use of such a character when competing for the scoreboards would easily fix any other issue anyone might have with them (if scoreboards are your concern).
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby FearItself » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:56 pm

That's cool though the transformation time would take a little too long if it's more than 25 secs since even in the site it's practically instantaneous though we can still lengthen it more. I really like the scream to attract titans thing for Annie though :D
And yeah a lengthy ish recharge time for the kick attack could work though it would have to be longer than 5 seconds if it's that strong.
I think the health bar idea is cool but it would probably make more sense to turn it into a stamina bar or something like that.
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Suraru » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:11 pm

Eff dat, how about an anime accurate one?
Transformation takes a few seconds, Titans are OP as hell, but it's conditional.

Eren:
Main Attack: Punch. Can hit allies, and push titans on the ground. If a small titan is there, then kick.
Special: Ground smash. Can hit allies, and destroy napes. Few second recharge.
Conditions: Can only transform when there are no other living humans in the game, meaning they all either died, or haven't connected yet, but this will prevent more than one titan!eren in the game, as well as being balanced, preventing a game breaking titan because advanced players dont always die, so they would prevent a transformation... unless they died. This also allows the risk of playing a useless eren for the entire game, so it's a gamble banking on the trust of your teammate's skills. Unless it's single player or the first round of the server, then you can transform freely.

Female:
Main Attack: Swing/swat. Tracks and targets players in range, making solo with female titan near impossible.
Special: Diamond shield thing: makes nape invulnerable for a handful of seconds, or makes swing/swat more powerful (like, enough to kill a normal titan) 3x long recharge.
Conditions: Adds to titan count (meaning players would have to kill her in order to win), but also targeted by titans. Has a passive to keep gear if female titan is defeated with nape intact, and has a global titan engagment, to lure titans closer to the battle. One female titan per game, which means any other female titan players would be on human's side as a human.

Both:
Health: Or more like stamina. Any titan punches, bites, blade slashes, or your own attacks slowly drop stamina. When it's low, titan shifters will have a resting animation when idle, speed gets slower, and recharges might take longer. When it's gone, the titan will collapse and the pilot will pop out with no blades or gas (can refill at depot).
Characters/Pilots: Special is to turn into a titan... that's really it.
Do I even English sometimes?
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Blackhunter » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:23 pm

good topic
but i guess this should be in suggestion section as a list of eren/annie titan form special ?
anyway:
for eren (titan form) something that give him more power ? or nothing -_-
for annie (titan form) that super kick that she use against eren ?or defend her nape ?
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Suraru » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:25 pm

Now that I've read Fugi's post, I agree with most things said.
Add the 5min cooldown to the titan shiter so they cant do it at the beginning of the game.
Also, I forgot to mention stamina bars regenerate.
Do I even English sometimes?
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Bootowski » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:37 pm

Suraru wrote:Stuff about Eren, transformed


This is by far the best layout for Titan Eren that I've seen posted, in my opinion. I feel like the conditions you listed, along with some sort of buffer period (2-3 min), would be absolutely perfect. I agree with Eren needing an accurate representation. He should be extremely powerful... But within reason. To expand upon that, maybe he could also receive a severe gas and blade supply usage rate/cap to compensate.

His fighting style is incredibly visceral, so the ground pound/punch special idea would be fitting... But maybe it could be a bit more flashy. For example, a sprinting straight punch for large Titans. I don't think the following should actually be his special since it might be too good, but... I always envisioned Eren having an air-use only Titan shifting attack as his special, rather than a full-blown transformation. Specifically;

Air-use only, 30sec cooldown, Eren decommissioned for 5sec after use, Max 1 Titan kill per use, DMG based on how high up in the air you are when used
Shift in mid-air, bringing a single full-body punch downward in an arc, using the velocity gained from Eren's added weight in Titan form... Aftermath: Titan body goes up in smoke, Eren is unable to move from impact area until cleared

Or something like that. Forcing the air-use requirement and adding the element of skill needed to utilize it (due to physics) would also be balanced in itself... As opposed to letting people just run around transformed like maniacs, just mashing all the keys. It'd be a bit like his air transformations from the manga/anime. Just flashy as ****.
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby ErenKyojin » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:47 pm

Fuginotory wrote:I think balancing the power of the titan shifters to be equal to the human characters would be a big mistake. Attack on Titan (the anime/manga) makes it clear that titans are stronger than humans, and shifters are stronger than titans, but there are also some very obvious things that are in line with the anime/manga that will make a shifter playable without making it OP.

A shifter added to the game would need to be evidently stronger than any normal titan and human, meaning that as a shifter in titan form you should be able to kill titans easily unless they overwhelm you and attack you from all sides, thus a health bar would be needed for a shifter, that health bar would deplete when the shifter is attacked, and refill when the shifter is in the clear, this bar can get the blade durability slot. If the titans manage to deplete this bar, you are finished.

As is evident in the anime/manga, a shifter is slower than 3DMG unless it is running, thus a normal character using 3DMG should be able to move a lot faster than a shifter in titan form, meaning that just because you are in titan form does not mean you are going to steal the show. Not being able to sprint in titan form would not make sense, and spamming attacks and abilities (like skin hardening) would be a bit OP, thus a stamina bar introduced, that depletes each time you attack, sprint or use a special could take up the gas spot. This bar will constantly refill itself slowly, so if you overdo it, you will burn yourself out (as seen in episode 8) at which point you emerge from the titan corpse with the slowest walking speed and no blades or gas, and incapable of shifting for an amount of time (say a 5 min cooldown) meaning a shifter would be unable to just shift back and start smashing again, and would most likely need protecting in order to get more gas and blades.

If shifting into a titan form is a special for the given character, then note that all specials start in cooldown when you start the game, or die and re-spawn, meaning that a cooldown around 5 minutes will mean that shifters can't just enter, shift and rampage all over, or get themselves killed if they burn themselves out in order to have their shifting reset, they would actually need to survive for a certain amount of time before they use it, and they would need to pay attention to their titan if they wish to do anything good with it. The cooldown for such an ability should not be too long though, anything beyond 5 minutes will mean you most likely will not be able to use it, ever. Why? Because most games I play end within 5 minutes when I'm clearing a level with just one friend, and the next round the shift will start in cooldown again, meaning I will only use it if the game drags on for too long, which is most likely to happen if my team is wiped out and I run out of gas on the no re-spawn and refill city level. A 5 minute cooldown would also mean that I can just kick back and wait it out if I feel like smashing something in single player.

These simple things will make the titan shifters both reasonable, playable, and they will, in my opinion, prevent people from just making a team of Eren and Eren and Eren and Eren etc... just so they can win. Why I think this?, because I've seen Jean, he has two things I like and wanted, he has twice the amount of gas the others have, and he has a grab escape (even if it is only one time), but he has no special attack, and I find that to be a real annoyance, and I wouldn't pick him, and honestly, I personally always play Mikasa because I like Mikasa (the anime/manga one that is), and it makes little difference to me what other characters are added, and what they can do. The only shifter I'm going to be happy enough to use that I would pick over Mikasa in a game is the Armoured Titan, because I like the Armoured Titan in both human and titan form, but I would still mostly use Mikasa.

Lastly, I cannot understand why anyone would concern themselves with what others might do if titan shifters are added, personally I wouldn't care if someone, somewhere decided to make a team of 5 that are all shifters just so they can win, I mean, I play how I like, they play how they like, their decision does not affect my gaming experience in any way. Also consider this, a titan shifter in titan form would not be able to gain the speed needed for high damage kills, the highest damage I see a shifter doing is in the neighbourhood of 100 at most, which is a universe apart from Levi's 100 230 (seeing is believing) and means that nobody would try to use if to get a high score in a score board, or fastest stage clearing for that matter, as it would take 5 minutes for the special to become available. Also banning the use of such a character when competing for the scoreboards would easily fix any other issue anyone might have with them (if scoreboards are your concern).

I like every idea here, any titan shifter should be exempt from the scoreboards, or get their own one, and because the stamina idea, you move around very slowly and honestly I bet almost everyone would start to hate titan shifters becuz they would be slow and there is players who kill fast, so fast I bet they would kill faster then the titan shifter, but if eren did shift, at the end of his transformation he should be sleeping and have to be cut out just like killing a titan and then be either unable to play anymore or can only run around and not use maneuver gear at all. Or he could come out of his titan and not be allowed to use maneuver gear because that would be OP to be able to shift, leave the titan, and then go killing as regular eren, and if u want to play as a regular eren without shifting, you would use him without using his special.
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Re: Female and Eren Titans

Postby Accelevi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:53 pm

I'm against having Annie as a playable character, due to her role and all.
Also, I'm against having her killable, but perhaps just defeated for now or something of the sort?
It seems really weird and strange in my opinion.
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