The Stifled Modding Community

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- Made by Feng, title edited by Accelevi

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Pixis » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:30 pm

TheRiz wrote:this wall of text... need TL;DR version...


Updated thread with TL;DR version! XD

Colopty wrote:You sound pretty biased about this, honestly.


I am biased. I'm 100% in support of this feature, and there's no hiding it. That being said, I want to see the topic openly discussed, so if you have arguments as to why it would be a bad thing to support, please say so. :D

bope wrote:I agree I bet he is the one who created it and is trying to build support around it. I personaly think that the mods bring about a bad change, under the impression of helping everyone with servers that work, and fix things that could take awhile for feng to get to. oh wait they only help.... and do not interfere with people who would rather play with the original lobby weird. #freeflan2014


Is this a supporter? Sarcasm too powerful. lol
Pixis
 

 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Z.E.D » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:35 pm

@Pixis . I doubt it will become competition , he hasn't developped the 3DMG mechanics yet.

SO to give my definite position , no to mods , at least NOT until the game is near completion or more polished. I've never heard a beta where modders come to trifle with and invade. the creator's work.....


But to avoid this feng should inspire himself from them and interact with us more frequently , people won't need to go to these anymore if they have the same features as the original.
Z.E.D
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby bope » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:42 pm

Z.E.D wrote:SO to give my definite position , no to mods , at least NOT until the game is near completion or more polished. I've never heard a beta where modders come to trifle with and invade. the creator's work.....

Okay again I am against the mods but... Minecraft/Starbound/towns openly supported mods and I am sure there are others. And trifle and invade are strong words, the almighty flan has graced us with one extra game mode they are calling "lava" and has removed the annoying lobby system, Hardly breaking the game.
bope
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Pixis » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:43 pm

Z.E.D wrote:SO to give my definite position , no to mods , at least NOT until the game is near completion or more polished. I've never heard a beta where modders come to trifle with and invade. the creator's work.....

But to avoid this feng should inspire himself from them and interact with us more frequently , people won't need to go to these anymore if they have the same features as the original.



Beta or no beta, the game is released and has a huge community that's expanding constantly. If you build it, the modders will come. (excuse that bad movie reference)

My main point is that these things are absolutely inevitable with the direction that the game is headed. The only way for the game to profit from the inevitable, rather than being taken down by it, is to embrace the change with open arms. The acceptance of the community's opinions on where the game should go is a very important part of it, I agree. In a way, you could think of these mods as community opinions that are manifested in a more physical form than just forum posts.
Pixis
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Empath » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:44 pm

Pixis wrote:
Empath wrote:I am going to address this as cleanly as possible. Your post is romanticizing this issue to an insane degree. There is also a fair amount of misinformation, so I will clear everything up until a mod either deletes or locks this.

1.) As far as I know, only Terramort has been banned for breaking the forums rules and posting links to the mod.
2.) Only one guild has been 'disbanded', and that guild was only created by Terramort to try and curry favor with members by offering them the mod if they joined.
3.) A large part of the community is not split in two, there is no schism at all.
4.) The current method of modding cannot give us new maps or a 'countless supply of additional features'. Feng would either have to fully release the unity project file or create modding tools for the public to use.
5.) There is no bandwidth or ram benefit from using the .exe over the browser.


Well, in all fairness, the issue is romanticized a bit, but it's a very valid issue, as I believe the continuous attempt to control the inevitable will result in people leaving this community behind.

1. I know that numerous people have been banned for this reason, not just Terramort, though he's the most recent individual who has. While I'm aware that it's against forum rules to do so, I believe those rules are set forth by a fear of loss of profit, a fear that is unjustifiable, and so those rules should be mended. That's why I made this thread.

2. As far as guilds go, any guild found supporting the offline clients will be deleted. Whether any more than Terramort's have or not in the past is a valid point, but the fact that the potential for it still exists is a problem. The benefits we stand to gain from offline clients vastly help to improve multiplayer, which you'll agree is the very foundation that our guilds are built upon. Without multiplayer, there would be no guilds.

3. As far as the schism, I've discussed with plenty of people as to whether or not they think this would be a good/bad idea and I've seen people on both sides. I think that if nobody agreed with me, there wouldn't be a continuous attempt to get these offline versions and there wouldn't be anybody trying to prevent people from doing so. There's obviously two sides here, and I'm speaking to the latter.

4. There's methods to decompile the code with the offline version, and thereby alter that code. The game doesn't need to be open-source for somebody to modify it. Thousands of games that were not open-source have successful mods, skyrim for example. There's plenty of methods for ripping models from a game that doesn't allow you to do so.

5. .exe programs can be opened through a command window that allows you to set parameters for the game's specs, ram and bandwidth min/max are two of these settings you can change. Your browser, whichever one you may use, also has min/max settings for its usage. The offline version gives us capability to control these settings, so there is potential for performance increase.

As I'm certain that you're going to continue to be unconvinced, I would at least ask that you keep an open mind and let others post their opinions before requesting that my post be deleted. I think there are plenty of people in the community that have an opinion on the matter, and it's important that we get those opinions out.

Z.E.D wrote:Okay So I'm extremely unsure about this. But if I had to choose i'd support.
WHy? here's an example : Anyone remember Zulthus ?http://fenglee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6619
FOr those who don't he's a forum member who made an incredible prototype model for Zhinganshina. It was playable and optimized on top of that. We're not even sure if feng saw it in the end . So he decided to continue his project apart from AoTTG. The way I see it , if feng refuses his help we lose an extremely talented map designer.


Thank you for bringing up this point! This is one example of a developer shunned, who could end up making a game that will turn into direct competition.


2.) This is completely false.

4.) You can get the source code, but unless you feel like sorting through it and completely rebuilding the unity project and using new assets, we are relatively limited.

5.) There would be no noticeable difference, the options are irrelevant. The games netcode is coded so poorly you need an extremely high upload speed to host, and that's it. Your computer will automatically use however much upload is required, or as much as it can before it maxes out.

I am of course all for modding. My entire history with this community has been in favor of modding, and I have personally spoken to Feng about the matter in the past. That aside, I'm against misinformation and exaggeration. Beyond all of that, there is no conversation to be had for modding vs not modding, as it has been proven ad-infinitum that modding is always the best course of action. Regardless of what _we_ want though, this is still Feng's game, these are his forums, and we will respect his desires. This isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship. If that ends up allowing a competitor such as Zhul to capture Fengs playerbase, then so be it, that's up to Feng.
Empath
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Constipation » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:49 pm

Also Feng has not given his input about this yet. Apparently he has been gone since the last update. But it is believed feng does not want the mod to be public.
Constipation
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Z.E.D » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:54 pm

bope wrote:
Z.E.D wrote:SO to give my definite position , no to mods , at least NOT until the game is near completion or more polished. I've never heard a beta where modders come to trifle with and invade. the creator's work.....

Okay again I am against the mods but... Minecraft/Starbound/towns openly supported mods and I am sure there are others. And trifle and invade are strong words, the almighty flan has graced us with one extra game mode they are calling "lava" and has removed the annoying lobby system, Hardly breaking the game.

okay sotty too strong words , but minecraft and starbound are different , modding and creation is their main mechanic. AoTTG is an action coop game , there are balace issues , the physics and so on .


THis issue is tearing me in two i'm going to bed i'l be back :lol:
Z.E.D
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby Pixis » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:57 pm

Empath wrote:2.) This is completely false.

4.) You can get the source code, but unless you feel like sorting through it and completely rebuilding the unity project and using new assets, we are relatively limited.

5.) There would be no noticeable difference, the options are irrelevant. The games netcode is coded so poorly you need an extremely high upload speed to host, and that's it. Your computer will automatically use however much upload is required, or as much as it can before it maxes out.

I am of course all for modding. My entire history with this community has been in favor of modding, and I have personally spoken to Feng about the matter in the past. That aside, I'm against misinformation and exaggeration. Beyond all of that, there is no conversation to be had for modding vs not modding, as it has been proven ad-infinitum that modding is always the best course of action. Regardless of what _we_ want though, this is still Feng's game, these are his forums, and we will respect his desires. This isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship. If that ends up allowing a competitor such as Zhul to capture Fengs playerbase, then so be it, that's up to Feng.


First off, if you're going to say something's completely false, at least provide a reason as to why it is. I've heard/seen direct statements on the matter from the staff and I'd like to know why you think we're not in danger of being shut down for using these offline clients.

As for misinformation and exaggeration, I have tested the differences between the two with several different resource monitors, and the offline client does far better with hosting servers than the online client does. If you've got results to prove otherwise, please show them.

Also, I see a lot of contradictions in this. If you're so supportive of feng's game and want it to succeed, why would you take a stance against our convincing him that the community is in danger on the situation? You may be right, this may be a dictatorship. I, for one, don't want to see this game hit rock bottom. I want it to rise above any competition that may arise, and I think that bringing situations like this to feng's desk is the most valuable thing we can do for him as a community. Rather than arguing against what's being said here, you should be helping to support this, if you truly think modding is a good thing and want to see this game do well.

Z.E.D wrote:okay sotty too strong words , but minecraft and starbound are different , modding and creation is their main mechanic. AoTTG is an action coop game , there are balace issues , the physics and so on .

THis issue is tearing me in two i'm going to bed i'l be back :lol:


While this is true for starbound, it's not for minecraft. It didn't start development under the support of mods. It just grew to support them. While I agree that there's a lot of things in the game that are very much different, the overall effect is the same. Modding allows for community improvement and game success by countless amounts. It's been proven time and time again.
Last edited by Pixis on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Pixis
 

Re: The Stifled Modding Community

Postby RamenRyu » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:00 am

I'm so torn about modding in AOTTG

THIS PART IS INCLUDING SOME BAIS
Right now the people who made the only mods are pretty untrustworthy IMO and aren't the nicest people in the world.
IN OTHER GAMES THOUGH
I fully support modding like minecraft, it helps add to the variety but this can add to some problems
The way it is now.
People could use these mods to cheat in ways that ruin the gameplay for the regular game,
EX: invincible mod- It would be unfair for us, as it would create an imbalance between players
If these mods were created, they should be put on a separate section of the game, away from the original version so it is untouched by mods/hacks
A button to redirect you to a second version of the game that is identical but there would be a list of mods you could download.

In all, I am supporting mods but I feel the original version should be untouched and only be changed by the original DEV's. It is all up to Feng to openly accept mods or deny them.
This will either create a totally disorganized System that will end up like the current Call of Duty 4 (except there will be little to none security against mods and hacks)or be graced like the community of mine craft.
RamenRyu
 

Terra's Reply

Postby TataBlitz » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:03 am

Empath wrote:I am going to address this as cleanly as possible. Your post is romanticizing this issue to an insane degree. There is also a fair amount of misinformation, so I will clear everything up until a mod either deletes or locks this.

1.) As far as I know, only Terramort has been banned for breaking the forums rules and posting links to the mod.
2.) Only one guild has been 'disbanded', and that guild was only created by Terramort to try and curry favor with members by offering them the mod if they joined.
3.) A large part of the community is not split in two, there is no schism at all.
4.) The current method of modding cannot give us new maps or a 'countless supply of additional features'. Feng would either have to fully release the unity project file or create modding tools for the public to use.
5.) There is no bandwidth or ram benefit from using the .exe over the browser.


ALL OF THIS TEXT IS FROM TERRAMORT, I AM MERELY A MESSENGER

1. I know others have been banned for mentioning the offline version. Like me, they can't actually come make a post about. However, unlike them, I'm not going to let people walk all over me.
2. The guild was NOT about curring favor by handing out the mod. I had posted the link to the mod in the main page, as well as in the general discussion. I was in the process of attempting to appease Accelevi by removing links and telling guild members that only hosts would have access to the mod. However, I was banned partway through, allowing Accelevi to make it look like I was trying to hand out mods in order join my guild. All you have to is read the first few paragraphs to realize I want team players, not a fat guild.
3. The schism seems pretty apparent to me. Well, it's more like a schism between the moderators and players.
4. As previously mentioned - the source code is not necessary to add new maps or other additions. Regardless, the mod has given a few things players have been asking for for MONTHS, mainly:
Removed TPS view limits (you can look straight up/down)
Gives Titan HP and regeneration
Fixed Annie's too-small hitboxes
You can double max Titan size
Dedicated servers that will restart even if host is alive (so you can let people play even when you leave)
Adds host commands, such as /restart, /kick, etc. etc.
Other small changes here and there, all optional, of course.
5. There may not be a bandwidth benefit from using the .exe, but you modify the RAM being used, as well as using external boosters (Such as Razer's) to make your game playable on older computers.

I also have one more point to make. Attack on Titan, and all related content, is owned exclusively by Funimation studios. The only reason Feng gets away with making this, is because it's free. For Accelevi, or anyone else, to tell players the HAVE to play online so Feng gets the ad money is pretty hypocritical, especially if mods aren't allowed.

*disclaimer: I have only relayed this message from Terramort, and do not agree or disagree with any of the above statements unless I post otherwise
Last edited by TataBlitz on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
TataBlitz
 

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