Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

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Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Terminus » Sat May 17, 2014 1:00 am

A small discussion occurred about "stealing kills" in the "What Defines a Pro" thread, and I felt it deserved its own topic to avoid derailing the thread. So, questions:

Do you think Kill to Death ratios are an important way of determining skill?

Do you think "stealing kills" is wrong?

Discuss.
Terminus
 

 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby MJRmasqu3rade » Sat May 17, 2014 1:07 am

Well, of course KDR is important to skill :P survivability and killing Titans easily is important. However, that's not all that defines skill, it's all mentioned on the "Define pro" thread. But upon thinking more about it, I guess it's all about the situation. If you take someone's kill JUST as they're about to hit the nape or something like that, then I suppose that'd be pretty annoying. But if they're only just about to engage the Titan, or aren't doing too great, then I say it's anyones kill.
MJRmasqu3rade
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Accelevi » Sat May 17, 2014 2:25 am

What's kill stealing?
It doesn't exist.

You miss it, well, sucks for you.
You're either too slow, too bad, or were unlucky.
Get over it.

(Not speaking to you specifically, just in general)
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Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Peanuts » Sat May 17, 2014 2:35 am

KDR just reflect on the player's skills and survivability.
Killsteal? I don't know, this was originally meant to be a co-op game, where everyone works together to face the titans. If the player can't kill fast enough and lets his prey gets stolen, this just means he has more to practise. Sort of like a self-motivation
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Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Tethys » Sat May 17, 2014 3:18 am

Killstealing is the wrong way of phrasing it. Until the moment where a titan is dead it is freely available to everyone to kill it. That's just the way things are. If you define 'killstealing' as approaching a titan that is currently engaged by somebody else and killing it yourself, then sure, killstealing exists, and it is something that a reasonable number of people frown upon and generally don't like.


The fact is though that there is a massive gulf in the general ability/skill required between (i) sneaking up behind a titan that is currently focussed on somebody else and slashing its nape, and (ii) taking on a titan that is currently facing you, quickly accessing the nape by outflanking it and then finishing it off.

It's very possible to have 'impressive' KDRs by showcasing little raw skill/talent/ability/whatever.

In a similar way it's also possible to have these impressive KDRs by employing very cautious and reserved playstyles where the player will only enter into a situation if they are 100% confident that they will not be killed.

And so in many cases people who place resounding emphasis on the KDR when assessing skill are missing the point.

There are a VAST multitude of different pathways to attaining an 'impressive' KDR, and only a small number of these accurately reflect 'skill'

Players who are actually sufficiently 'good' themselves to be able to recognise whether other players are skilled/talented don't do so by looking at your KDR. They look closely at your movements and observe what you are and what you are not capable of pulling off.

I know players who average a KDR of 20 or 30 but who have been capable of taking out 5 or 6 10-15m regular titans bunched very tightly together on Hard with reasonable consistency.
I also know players who have had KDRs of 50 or 60 who you wouldn't want to rely on taking on 2 or 3 10-15m regular titans on Hard at once.

If you want to properly evaluate/assess a player's skill you need to identify the individual constituents that actually make an exceptional player an exceptional player, and then assess those things directly.

Typically though, if you see somebody with a KDR of over 100 and they never touch the ground and they're able to basically 'instantly' kill titans via pulling off aerial wraparound after aerial wraparound after aerial wraparound, then yeah, that's a definite sign of an exceptional player.
Last edited by Tethys on Sat May 17, 2014 3:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tethys
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby BSC » Sat May 17, 2014 3:24 am

Logically having a higher kdr shows your competency in 3DMG maneuvers and titan-slaying techniques although this isn't necessarily accurate in determining a players actual ability. Simply using ground->titan techniques is hardly difficult to accomplish while air equators, reel slashes and multi-kills (within a very small time-frame) can be very testing of a player.
Kill stealing is situational as mentioned by MJR said but ultimately there is no name-tag on titans saying which player can kill it. It's more of a social issue and doesn't really define a player's 'skill' in terms of the linked threads' context.

Edit: Wahahaha I was thinking of kdr as Kill/Damage Ratio. For Kill/Death Ratio it doesn't reflect accurately, as stated above, a players actual ability. It's better to use the Kill/Damage Ratio system despite being inaccurate too.
Killstealing matters to me and I tend to avoid it when in casual mode, but I freely do so when I'm on my main. Kill/Death Ratio doesn't matter to me as much as Kill/Damage Ratio.
BSC
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Megamaster » Sat May 17, 2014 3:38 am

I consider killstealing an "urban legend". I am sure that if someone had it's kill "stolen", he or she could do something to avoid this, maybe being faster, or even smarter. And also, KDR does not matter at all, maybe it helps with the player's self-esteem, but KDR does not affect the game in any direct form, since there is no XP or gold in AOTTG. I only use my KDR to avaliate myself, and somethimes, compete with my friends. But i've seen people in public servers, who just raged like hell, just because someone "stole it's kill", and i see this as an stupid action. There are also people, who consider KDR as an skill meter, so they get annoyed by "killsteals", but, i do not know any other reason to get mad with this.
Megamaster
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby Dikasa » Sat May 17, 2014 4:30 am

I would say that there is a point that "kill stealing" is too much. For example, earlier today in a game I was practically getting every single kill, and people were getting frustrated which is understandable, because I was not letting them have any fun. So then I became more of a support player.
Dikasa
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby MJRmasqu3rade » Sat May 17, 2014 4:38 am

Dikasa wrote:I would say that there is a point that "kill stealing" is too much. For example, earlier today in a game I was practically getting every single kill, and people were getting frustrated which is understandable, because I was not letting them have any fun. So then I became more of a support player.

Well, yeah, but that's more of a situation of you being fast and good, and them not being fast enough to get kills. It'd be frustrating, but if they can't manage to get kills, well, sucks to be them, they should practice some more :| honestly, I don't know why people value kdr that much in a game like this. In this game people tend to value high damage and fast times, getting kills isn't a huge achievement.
MJRmasqu3rade
 

Re: Killstealing and the KDR: Do they matter to you?

Postby SuperCyp » Sat May 17, 2014 6:07 am

I find if you think about Sasha and Connie in the practices during the Anime always stealing Jean's thunder, it was anything goes, so I follow those lines typically. If someone steals my kill, oh well. It's a do or die situation, if you miss you could get slapped or grabbed. I'd rather survive than get grabbed by a titan and be unhelpful for the rest of the round. K/D doesn't matter to me, though if I treat it like League of Legends K/D/A then if you're scoring positively in kills, as in killing more than you have died, than it shows you're being a credit to your team. On another note though, if all you're good at killing is a certain type of titan (for me as Petra I can deal with floppers fairly easily) than you're a credit to your team in that way. I don't think it matters overall, if you're still learning then just have fun with it, I know I died more times than I killed titans when I was first starting out, but it was all part of the experience.

Though I'm a slow killer, so by the time there is 10 people, in the room. I barely get any kills, but in the end, I just keep an eye out for abnormals, and try to support them.
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